Comments on: John Carpenter’s ‘Lockout’ Lawsuit and the Strange Precedent it Sets https://halloweenlove.com/john-carpenters-lockout-lawsuit-and-the-strange-precedent-it-sets/Halloween & Horror BlogMon, 13 Feb 2017 22:28:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.1 By: Boondock Fuggamuffin https://halloweenlove.com/john-carpenters-lockout-lawsuit-and-the-strange-precedent-it-sets/#comment-8079Mon, 13 Feb 2017 22:28:00 +0000https://halloweenlove.com/?p=18950#comment-8079Maybe the studio should not have billed the movie in the opening credits as “based on an ORIGINAL idea by Luc Besson” since anyone that has seen Escape from LA knows the idea isn’t so “ORIGINAL”.

]]>
By: Charles Hay https://halloweenlove.com/john-carpenters-lockout-lawsuit-and-the-strange-precedent-it-sets/#comment-7659Tue, 20 Oct 2015 01:13:00 +0000https://halloweenlove.com/?p=18950#comment-7659John, I love your enthusiasm for all things horror, but this piece is misguided. I am not a lawyer, and far from an expert, but:

You can’t copyright an idea, only the implementation of that idea. This is why you can have two different characters from two different creators and both of those characters put on masks and capes and fight crime. It’s why early Batman could borrow ideas from Zorro and “The Man Who Laughed.” It’s why Carpenter could make “Assault on Precinct 13” and Tarantino his “Reservoir Dogs.” Certain premises might be similar, but the details are different– or, at least, different enough to create what’s regarded as a derivative work. (Copyright law is ill-defined in some areas, and it gets fuzzy when people try to decide if a creator has wandered far enough away from a source to create a ‘derivative work.’ Lawsuits usually happen when the details remain too similar.)

In the case of Lockout versus Escape from New York, it’s instructive to look at the French court’s analysis:

> The court … noted many similarities between the two science-fiction films: both presented an athletic, rebellious and cynical hero, sentenced to a period of isolated incarceration – despite his heroic past – who is given the offer of setting out to free the President of the United States or his daughter held hostage in exchange for his freedom; he manages, undetected, to get inside the place where the hostage is being held, after a flight in a glider/space shuttle, and finds there a former associate who dies; he pulls off the mission in extremis, and at the end of the film keeps the secret documents recovered in the course of the mission.

Lots of similar details, which people noticed. (In 2012, Observer critic Philip French remaked “Carpenter, however, might well regard [Lockout] as a remake of … Escape from New York.”)

In my mind, there are only three remarkable things about this lawsuit:

– That Europacorp didn’t settle right away, out of court. (cf Harlan Ellison’s lawsuit against Cameron and “The Terminator”).

– That it involved foreigners suing French nationals and a French corporation in a French court, and the foreigners won.

– That the plaintiffs asked for 3 million euros in damages, but were only awarded 80,000. That implies, to me, that the court wanted to say, “You might be technically right, Monsieur Carpenter, but you’re still an asshole.”

Sources: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/16/john-carpenter-wins-legal-action-against-luc-besson-scripted-thriller-lockout

]]>
By: Grimbridge https://halloweenlove.com/john-carpenters-lockout-lawsuit-and-the-strange-precedent-it-sets/#comment-7656Mon, 19 Oct 2015 19:15:00 +0000https://halloweenlove.com/?p=18950#comment-7656I’m relieved to be reading this piece. A lot of people are showing great enthusiasm about the Lockout crew being sued and I personally find it to be a bummer. Imagine being sued by someone you grew up idolizing? I’m not here to debate who is right or wrong, or where the line of “homage” and “plagiarism” falls, it’s just strange to me that this lawsuit was on Carpenter’s priority list when many filmmakers would be honored by the likeness of these films. By this logic I guess we should be patiently waiting for The Final Girls to be sued by Sean Cunningham.

]]>
By: Michael M https://halloweenlove.com/john-carpenters-lockout-lawsuit-and-the-strange-precedent-it-sets/#comment-7655Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:54:00 +0000https://halloweenlove.com/?p=18950#comment-7655I think there’s a difference, though, between paying homage and outright copying. Carpenter has done the former often in his career, usually in very subtle and creative ways (as opposed to Quentin Tarantino, who is always very blatant in his homages), but I could never accuse him of the latter. I remember watching “Lockout” a few years ago when it came out on DVD and even then thinking “It’s kinda fun, but it’s basically just ripping off Escape From New York.” I seem to recall even the opening scene featuring the capture of Guy Pierce’s character essentially being a lift of EFNY’s deleted bank heist scene that featured Snake Plissken getting captured.

]]>